This is an Open Forum for Readers to Discuss Civil Service Conversions.
WHAT DO you think about the Civil Service audit findings, job analysis, and the conversions? What questions do you have? Please let us know.
WHAT DO you think about the Civil Service audit findings, job analysis, and the conversions? What questions do you have? Please let us know.
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PART OF APAC's role is to help represent the issues and concerns of UIC's Academic Professional staff. In order to do this, we need as much input from APs as we can get. We also want to provide an opportunity for people to discuss the conversions.
Ultimately, I think UIC got caught in a sticky situation of appointment abuse. I think it is a shame that we as APs don't have a say in the process because civil service is the law. However, I do think it is also ironic that we complain about not having a voice and pushback on a process that will give voice to university employees (to some extent).
ReplyDeleteHuman Resources says that communication is important yet there have not been many/any recent communciations from them regaring the timeline, the status, answers to questions about soft funded appointmets, etc.
ReplyDeleteTo build on the lack of communication - I keep hearing a lot of rumors about the entire process from co-workers. I think things such as informal lunch-n-learns, blogs, etc. would go a long way in dispelling the rumors about what's going on, what to expect, and when to expect things.
ReplyDeleteMy impression of the CS system is that it values seniority over qualifications- this is the basis of the "bumping" system within CS. I find this to be a very unprofessional approach to filling higher level administrative positions. Many APs have advanced degrees or certificates that uniquely qualify them for their positions,yet these credentials and performance become secondary to seniority under CS. The argument that the CS system is the only legal state employment system is specious- the creation of AP exemptions is perfectly legal under current legislation. The amount of time and energy being devoted to the conversion is wasteful in this time of precious resources. There is a place within the administrative structure of this university for highly qualified professional administrators who are valued for their training,skills and performance, and not primarily for the number of years they have been employed at this institution.
ReplyDeleteWill those in a visiting position be granted seniority in their converted CS position for the time spent in the visiting position. If they do, please explain why. The visiting modifier indicates the position is temporary. Do Extra Help employees gain seniority for the time they are in the extra help position if they then become permanent employees in the same position?
ReplyDeleteI would echo the comments about seniority over qualifications not being an effective way to manage an institution. I am not at all interested in being in a union.
ReplyDeleteIt is my understanding that those in a visiting position will NOT be granted any seniority in their converted CS position for the time spent in the visiting position. I understood it to be that you are only granted seniority for a position if you are in the actual permanent position - not visiting or extra help. I tried to find some information about this on the HR website, but I couldn't.
ReplyDeleteWhy haven't AP's considered unionizing from becoming CS's? There hasn't been much noise from AP's concerning this conversion. The impression I'm getting is that we are taking this change lying down without a fight. Faculty are unionizing. While becoming a CS involves a union, this conversion ignores the uniqueness of AP education and experience requirements. No CS would easily function in a specialized AP role just because they bump into that position due to seniority. The CS system is over 60 years old and does not suit many AP qualifications and educational backgrounds.
ReplyDeleteSo what happens to seniority when your dept plays with your appointment constantly making you visiting then permanent, then visiting again (all with the same title). I know people who have years of experience in a title who only became visiting because the dept did not want anyone to have one year notice rights? Do you only get senority credit for the years you were permanent? What if your last appt was visiting do you get any seniority?
ReplyDeleteIf someone who has been through the process sees this, can you tell me what it was like? What actually happened?
ReplyDeleteThe conversion is absolutely appropriate in those instances where hires have been made AP in order to avoid civil service pay and protections. There are positions such as these in my department, and I support these conversions. I also support CS conversion for positions in which the functions performored are more generic - where at least 80% of a position's functions are not based on knowledge of a particular department. HOWEVER, I consider the "fair share" contribution for civil servants who do not wish to join the union exploitive. I did not learn about this until one of my AP staff underwent conversion and chose not to join the union. The silence on this poin is interesting. We have been told that conversion will not affect salary - but it DOES affect take-home pay if you end up paying as much as $600 annually in "fair share" contributions. I suspect that fattening union coffers is a large part of the motivation behind the conversion. Shame on the trustees and university leadership who have supported this dragnet to convert!
ReplyDeleteIs it true that a recently promoted AP only has the seniority attached to the new title? That means that after almost 20 years at the university, I could be bumped out the door because I was just promoted to new title a few months ago. Someone please confirm that there is some protection for people like me.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens to an AP that was civil service for 25 years and then converted to an AP for 5 years, is that 25 years now apart of my seniority as a convert back to civil service?
ReplyDeleteMy experience with CS employees has been less than stellar and I fear that the same attitudes towards job duties, hours worked, seniority etc. will start to infect previous AP positions.
ReplyDeleteI don't think departments wrote special AP positions to save money, they did it so their stellar employee can't be replaced by some senior waste of space who pulls out their union handbook every time they come in late for work.
Sure, there are great CS and crummy AP but let's face it. Once you're CS, you lose much of the motivation to excel at a job. I for one will start looking elsewhere if my position is changed. For an organization that wants to represent me, I'm surprised that the union has so little care on my thoughts on the conversion. I for one haven't been contacted by them.
We need to stop talking -- which changes nothing -- and form our own APAC union to fight for our rights. The new faculty union values performance over seniority and our union could do the same. Until we form an organization that our authoritarian management must legally negotiate with,and that will have the political power to get legislation changes, our actions will continue to be limited to whining about unfair and illogical treatment.
ReplyDeleteI was hired a civil service but was converted to AP 25 years ago. Having a PhD, I was very happy with the conversion. But I don't make the average salary now that people in the civil service rank that I had 27 years ago get. Is there a big raise in my future? Somehow I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteAll this anxiety and anger confirms my long-held belief that UIC HR is a total mess. Screw-ups, large and small, create constant headaches and contribute to the ever-sinking morale among UIC APs and contingent faculty--both groups finally are realizing the extent to which they are exploited and generally kicked around. I am very tired of being told I'm lucky to have a job at all; I'm tired of being treated condescendingly by too many (not all) tenure-track faculty as some kind of clerk or house servant: I have a PhD and work hard and consistently to offer our students the best possible experience at UIC. I love the notions of opportunity, equality, and service that inform UIC's mission, but HR doesn't even come close to measuring up to these lofty goals. Shame on them and on the highest reaches of the administration for allowing this travesty to continue for way too long.
ReplyDeleteCan a person be bumped from their job the moment that it gets converted, if there is a current CS employee with greater seniority whose job is being eliminated?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fightbacknews.org/2010/8/16/seiu-local-73-leader-responds-uic-administration
ReplyDelete"Local 73 President Christine Boardman exposed that UIC’s practice is discriminatory at its core. “The University is deliberately pursuing a strategy to take people out of Civil Service.” The unionized Civil Service workers at UIC are over 90% Black and Latino, while it appears the majority of Academic Professionals are white. The exact percentages are not known, as UIC has failed to respond to Freedom of Information requests filed by Local 73. Also, President Boardman showed that the wage disparity has grown in recent years between the predominantly white Civil Service workers in Urbana and the mainly Black and Latino work force in Chicago."
Is it true that not all AP converted positions will become unionized civil service employees?
ReplyDeleteMy concern is a smaller paycheck due to possible mandatory union fees. Additionally, isn't the vacation/sick accrual rate lower for CS?
The following are the exemptions we need to use to create an AP position. It is obvious that positions were created that don't meet these criteria, and should have been civil service under current regulations. Fine. But isn't the obvious solution to fight for the addition of a few new exemption categories that encompass the level of expertise that we feel is required in the positions that we created as APs? There is a gap between the current exemptions allowed to create an AP and the reality of what, in practice, we need APs for. Let's get 1-2(?) more exemptions so we can hire APs legally when it is appropriate and hire in civil service when it is appropriate.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.uic.edu/depts/hr/UIC_Civil_Service_Audit_Job_Analysis/FAQs/SectionD/index.shtml
The Civil Service established a set of criteria for exemption for certain jobs from the rules governing Civil Service:
Criterion A:
(1) Whose primary duty is administrative management of a Campus or Agency division or like unit, and who reports to the Chief Executive Officer of the Campus or Agency; or
(2) Who performs an independent administrative function and reports to the Chief Executive Officer, President, Vice President, Chancellor, Vice Chancellor or Provost of the Campus or Agency OR
Criterion B:
(1) Whose primary responsibility is the administration of an academic unit engaged in academic instruction or research (e.g., Dean, Associate and Assistant Dean, Department Head, Associate and Assistant Department Head). OR
Criterion C:
(1) Who is charged with high level administrative responsibilities and whose decisions are based on administrative policies; and
(2) Who performs these duties with only general administrative supervision or direction and who exercises discretion and independent judgment (e.g., Director, Associate or Assistant Director). OR
Criterion D:
(1) Who is in a position requiring a knowledge of an advanced type in a field of science or learning customarily acquired by a prolonged course of specialized intellectual instruction and study (as distinguished from a general academic education) and which requires the consistent exercise of discretion and judgment (e.g., physician, attorney, engineer, architect, archaeologist, physicist, biochemist).
Here is a sample of what the union thinks:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fightbacknews.org/2010/8/16/seiu-local-73-leader-responds-uic-administration
"Local 73 President Christine Boardman exposed that UIC’s practice is discriminatory at its core. “The University is deliberately pursuing a strategy to take people out of Civil Service.” The unionized Civil Service workers at UIC are over 90% Black and Latino, while it appears the majority of Academic Professionals are white. The exact percentages are not known, as UIC has failed to respond to Freedom of Information requests filed by Local 73. Also, President Boardman showed that the wage disparity has grown in recent years between the predominantly white Civil Service workers in Urbana and the mainly Black and Latino work force in Chicago."
I agree with several of the above posters about a lack of communication. As someone who went through the interview process with HR in May 2010, not my supervisor, my HR person, or I have heard a peep about my status and the outcome of the interview since I walked out of their office a full year ago. Beyond frustrating.
ReplyDeletehow will H-1b be classified?
ReplyDelete1) I agree. Stop talking and more action. We need an APAC Union.
ReplyDelete2) I went through the interview conversion portion, and the questions do not apply to my role, yet I was expected to answer them. The questions ignored the specialized knowledge needed for my role. I would be insulted if a person with a high school diploma bumped me because of their seniority. I didn't earn a graduate degree to be classified as a "worker." I am a professional.
I am a professional and I have created quantifiable results in my department. The administration knows this and should not be pressured by the union. We are not a political institution. I would never agree to be part of any union.
ReplyDeleteI worked in civil service for 15 years before going AP 5 years ago. My title as a CS is not the same as my title as an AP (they are not even close), yet my current AP job is clearly an evolution of my former CS position. Does that mean my 15 years of service credit is gone because my titles don’t match? One of the reasons I left CS was to avoid being unionized when my CS title was being absorbed by them. I wanted to have a job where my individual skills and merits were being considered, rewarded and respected, not just my title, union and seniority. And I agree . . . we should not be applying a 60 year old HR model to a cutting edge, modern, creative and brilliant campus like UIC. And why are we even still being controlled by State government when our financial support from them is next to nothing and they haven't been paying their share of our pensions for years? I know it is a dream, but I personally would rather see us all working together towards becoming completely independent of the State of Illinois rather than us all joining different, separate unions and becoming more isolated from each other.
ReplyDeleteThanks, APAC, for giving us a way comment on this situation. It was very cathartic.
I think the University has been under the microscope ever since the "Clout" fiasco and because of those previous improprieties "they" are in no position to argue with or stand up to anybody. All they can do is make concessions and increase the ethics training for the rest of us! "It" rolls downhill!
ReplyDeleteState Residency Question
ReplyDeleteI am a full time AP who lived in IL when I was hired several years ago but have since moved to Indiana. If I am converted to a CS, will my residency be grandfathered or will I have to choose between keeping my job (having to move back to IL) or keeping my home (losing my job since I am no longer a resident of IL)?
It is interesting that, while Chicago's new Schools Superintendant is talking about the value of merit pay vs tenure/union pay scales, UI is looking at an opposite kind of change.
ReplyDeleteTo answer some questions:
ReplyDelete1. Visiting AP titles will carry over appropriate seniority, if converted to CS.
2. If you held an AP title for 20 years, Director of X, for example. Then you were converted to another AP position Director of Y, the title you held for the past 5 years. CS seniority determination will vary if converted. If the two job descriptions are similar in nature, you would be eligible for 25 years of seniority. If the jobs are way different, then you would only carry over 5 years of seniority into the CS system.
Both points are what I've heard from HR's perspective in a couple town hall meetings I've attended. However, this is all speculation and until the University hammers down all the details with the Civil Service System, that is all it will be, speculation.
New Jobs Posted on UIC Job Board Have Gone Through Job Analysis
ReplyDelete"jobs posted since January 2011 should be classified correctly, as new positions are required to go through job analysis before being posted. So, individuals considering employment with the university or considering a change in employment within the University can expect a job posted as Academic Professional to remain in this category." Is this true?
You get different answers depending on who you ask in HR! Please ask HR for written clarification that can be shared!